"TIC TAC TOE"
Witness 15: Sakir Tac
Testimony begins on page 1848 Slobo's cross examination begins on 1877.
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/020311IT.htm
Testimony begins on page 1848 Slobo's cross examination begins on 1877.
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/020311IT.htm
Watson: Well, it's been a wretched start for the prosecution hasn't it.
Holmes: It's hardly the "hitting the ground running" kind of start we were told it would be, certainly. However, maybe things will pick up with this witness.
Watson: Hurrah!!!!!! Slobo about to be sent reeling by a young Turk.Some background blurb per chance.
(
( 1848 )
Question: Mr. Tac, what is your ethnicity?
Witness: Turkish.
Question: Mr. Tac, where was your place of birth?
Witness: I was born in Mamush.
)
Holmes: To cut a boring story short, our hero was born in 1954 did his military service like a good little boy
(
( 1850 )
Question:Today, are most of the residents of Mamusa of Turkish ethnicity, like you?
Witness: Yes. Yes. Ninety per cent Turkish and 10 per cent Albanian.
Question: Did any Serbs live in Mamusa in 1999?
Witness: There have never been Serbs in Mamusha.
)
Holmes: He added that the population of the town was a princely "5.500 to 6.000"
Watson: Nods off.
(
( 1852 )
Question: Thank you. Mr. Tac, apart from Mamusa, were there any other towns or villages -- are there any other towns or villages in that area of Kosovo where the population is mostly of Turkish ethnicity?
Witness: Apart from Mamusha, there were Turks in Prizren, in Prishtina, and in other towns a few, but really only in Mamusha there were Turks.
)
Watson: Okay, coke head, how about when the Serbs torture the ethnic Turks and impale the heroic KLA freedom fighters on sticks.
Holmes: Here it comes. Kind of.
(
( 1853 )
Question:What happened, Mr. Tac, in Mamusa on the evening of the 25th of March, 1999? Do you recall?
Witness: On the 25th of March, in Mamusha, at about 10.00 at night, a whole group of refugees came, about 1.000........They came from the surrounding villages. They all came from the villages round about to Mamush.........They were Albanians.
Question: Did any of these refugees stay in your house that night?.......... And did they tell you -- did any of them tell you why they came to Mamush?
Witness: Yes. They said because it was quiet. To save their lives, that was why they came to us.........Mamusha was very quiet at this time. There had been no conflicts. They had come to save their lives.
Question: And approximately how many people of Albanian ethnicity sought
Judge: He has said a thousand.
Witness: No. No. On that day, we didn't see, but when we came out after two days later, there were about 30.000.
)
Watson: So we get to hear some second hand testimony.
Holmes: Yup.
Watson: Goes back to sleep.
(
( 1854 )
Question: What happened on the 27th of March, 1999 in Mamusa?
Witness: On the 27th of March, 1999, at about 10.00 or 11.00, the army came, with tanks, and
entered Mamush........They came to the middle of the village -- into the middle of the village with tanks, and the refugees were among the houses, and they told us all to come out into the centre of the village.........We all went out with all the refugees and all the villagers of Mamush into the centre of the village.........There is a road. It is a long one, and all the road was full of people........The soldiers came in among them. I don't know who they were, but they came in, in around the people........Everybody was ordered to go out into the middle of the village, the residents and the refugees alike.
Question: And what happened when all the people had gathered in the middle of the village?
Witness: Yes. We went out of the houses and left the houses empty, and we went out into the middle of the village and they said to us, "You of Mamush go on one side, and you refugees on another side."........The population of Mamusha at one side and then the Albanian refugees separately.
Question: And when the people were divided into two groups that day, what did the soldiers or
their commander, if there was one, say to the people?
Witness: They said, "You people of Mamusha bring out your carts, buses, trucks, everything you've got, and fill them with refugees and take them away from here.".........He told me to get trucks and fill them with refugees, and all our friends came out on the street with these vehicles and parked them there and started to fill them up with people, all the buses and trucks.
Witness: All our vehicles were filled up, and they said, "All right. Don't you use your carts, but let them go out with all their own carts and let them all go out in the streets with what they have."Those who had their carts went back and fetched them, whatever they had, and they got on board, and then they set out.
Question: Did you see a battle going on or hear the sounds of a battle taking place on that day?
Witness: No. In Mamusha village, there was never any fighting, not only that day, but never; never in the past did we have any fighting there.
Question: At some point was a convoy made of the vehicles owned by the refugees in Mamusa?
Witness: Yes. There was a convoy of refugees. We, the inhabitants of Mamusha, were sitting aside........We all saw them leave for Prizren or I don't know where they were taking them.
Question: On that day, did the Albanian residents of Mamusa remain in Mamusa or did they also join the convoy?
Witness: They were in Mamusha together. We were all together there.........They stayed together with us, the Albanians of Mamusha.
)
Watson: So only the refugees NOT from the village were told to move on. So what's the big deal?
Holmes: What indeed? And note that, as the Kosovo Albanians who lived in the village didn't leave, we can safely assume this was no "expell all the Kosovo Albanian" policy that the MSM would have us believe.
Watson: My god, such god awful testimony.
Holmes: God awful it is.
(
Question: Let's talk now, Mr. Tac, about the evening of 27 March, 1999. What happened in Mamusa that evening?
Witness: That night - it was about 6.00 in the afternoon - we saw that the houses of the village started to go in flames........ We were in our own homes and then we saw flames coming out of some houses. We were inside. It was from a distance. We could see the smoke and the flames. We were -- we went to our cellars to hide there.
Question: About how many houses were burned in Mamusa that night?
Witness: About 30, I think........That night, we didn't know what was happening, I mean in terms of people who got killed or injured. On the next day, we found out that seven people had been killed.
Question: What was the ethnicity of the persons who perished that night in Mamusa?
Witness: Three Turks, four Albanians.
)
Watson: That's it?
Holmes: Yup.
Watson: If that's evidence then I'm Britney Spears.
(
( 1864 )
Question: At some point during that evening, the 27th of March, did a tank come near the village of Mamush?
Witness: Yes. A tank was coming in the direction of Mamusha. When it came in the village, we went to a brook nearby. No. I'm sorry. The tank had an accident and rolled over......... It rolled over about 200, 300 metres above the village it was.
Question: After this tank rolled over, were more homes set on fire in Mamush?
Witness: We didn't know what was happening, but we found out that this burning stopped.......... I didn't see the tank that night, but on the next day when they came to pull it over with a crane, we saw the army troops passing by in the middle of the village to go to the place where the tank had the accident.
Question: Were you able to see who started the fires in Mamusa on the evening of 27 March?
Witness: I didn't see who set the fire, but people there know.........They left, and then the army came and they set fire to the houses, and they drove us away from our homes. It was the Serb Yugoslav army that did that.
Question: Who told you that? Do you recall who told you that?
Witness: Our villagers who left their homes, they told us.
)
Watson: So, some MORE hearsay. Aaaaagh! I'm being submerged in a tsunami of hearsay.
(
( 1865 )
Question: At about noon on April 2nd, what happened in Mamusa?
Witness: On the 2nd of April - it was in the afternoon at about 12.00 or 1.00 - the police came to the centre of the village. Five or six, I think.
Question: And what, if anything, did the police tell the people in the centre of the village to do?
Witness: They wanted us to bring out our trucks to the road........I was at home, and someone told the villagers who went to the middle of the village. He said, "All of you bring out your trucks to the road.".........Some of the trucks were about to leave, and a neighbour of mine came up to me and said, "You, too, should come out with your truck.".......... When we reached the road, we parked beside the road and we were waiting for them to tell us what they wanted us to do.
Question: When you were parked in a line along that road, did you see the policemen there on the road?
Witness: Yes. The police were coming around the cars and trucks.
Question: Dd you learn the identity of any of the individual policemen who were in Mamusa on that afternoon?
Witness: I didn't know any one of them, but some of my friends said that this policeman is called Sipka.
Question: Were you close enough to hear him?
Witness: Yes. I was just there by my vehicle and he was forced to bring his vehicle and come.
Question: Eventually, Mr. Tac, about how many trucks were lined up along that road?
Witness: There were 12 of us........We started the trucks up and got into the vehicles, and he was in front and we were behind him.
Question: And did you and the other drivers follow Mr. Sipka in your trucks?
Witness: Yes. We all went after him.
Question: And when the trucks left the village of Mamusa on that day, where did they go?
Witness: To Medred, Xerxe, and then to Pirana........2 A. We went on towards Rahovec, and
when we arrived in Xerxe, the police stopped us.
Question: And what did the police who stopped you in Zrze tell you to do?
Witness: In Xerxe, they pointed us towards Rahovec.
Question: And what did the police who stopped you in Rahovec tell you to do?
Witness: They told us to go to Malisheva.........We went to Malisheva.........There were a lot of refugees in Malisheva, and Serbian police and soldiers surrounding the refugees there.
Question: When you arrived in Malisevo that day, did you see any planes dropping bombs?
Witness: No. We didn't see anything like that.........Then they told the refugees, "Go on. Get into
the trucks." and the trucks were filled up and we closed them........They were refugees. Malisheva was absolutely full. All the area -- the entire area of Malisheva had gathered there.
Question:How did you know that these people were -- that these people were refugees who had gathered in Malisevo? Did you speak to any of them?
Witness: We spoke to them and said, "Here you go. Go on, get into our trucks." They said, "You set off for Prizren." They said, "Go on. When they're full up, off you go."
Question: Well, how did you and the other drivers know where to go?
Witness: They said -- beforehand they said, "Fill up the trucks and then go to Albania." They told us........We set off from Malishevo to Rahovec, Xerxe, Pirana, Prizren........They stopped us at Ostrozub. The Serbian army stopped us at Ostrozub, about ten kilometres from Malishevo.........They stopped us and asked for money from us.........We continued on toward the Albanian border.
Question: Along the way, did you see any planes dropping any bombs? Along the way, did you see any battles taking place or hear the sounds of a battle?
Witness: No. I didn't see anything like that.
Judge: Mr. Saxon, while they were driving to the Albanian border, was there any Serb police or army with them?
Witness: No. They -- they weren't with us along the road.
Question: If there were no Serb forces driving with you along the road, why did you continue to drive towards the Albanian border?
Witness: There wasn't, but they told us to take these people straight to Albania. So we were forced to take them. There was nothing else we could do.
Question: So the road between Zhur and the boarder was full. So you couldn't go any further; is that right?
Witness: We told them, "Okay, friends, we have reached Zhur. We can't go any further. We'll have to wait for two days. Can you get off and go on by foot towards Albania?"........They said, "Where are we?" "We're in Zhur." "Is the border far?" And I said, "It's six or seven kilometres, no further than that."........ "All right," they said, "Thank you for taking us this far." And they got off and got out of the truck......... "Thank you for bringing us this far. You brought us as if by plane." And we said goodbye and we said, "Safe journey," and we went one direction, they went in another. And we said, "God willing, you'll be all right," and we went back.........We were 12 trucks and we returned to Prizren again.
)
Holmes: THAT"S IT
In summary, the guy said that some refugees came to the village, then the Serbs moved them on, he saw some flames and some dead bodies a day or so later, and then a couple of days later still, he and several villagers went to Malishevo to move some Kosovo Albanian refugees away from the fighting. THAT'S IT FOLKS.
Well, Slobo didn't need to do much to knock it into touch, considering the witness wasn't really saying anything.
(
( 1877 )
Slobo: In your opinion, were those refugees able to be put up somewhere there in Malisevo?
Witness: They were outside. When I saw them, they were gathered in the middle of Malisheva. There was no place they could go to.
Slobo: That means it was logical that somebody should take them away from that place, where they had nowhere to go, nowhere to be put up, to be evacuated somewhere, to be taken away to safety somewhere; is that right?
)
Watson: So the Serb forces were helping them get to a place where they could find shelter, etc. So where's the crime then?
Holmes: Where indeed. The treatment of the ethnic Turks under Belgrade rule. Life was pretty good it seems.
(
( 1886 )
Slobo: According to my information and the figures, up until the war, the whole village of Mamusa lived in a normal way, as loyal citizens to Serbia, and I also have information that you would go out to all the elections that took place from 1990 to 1997. Is that correct?
Witness: For myself, I didn't go to the polls. I don't know what the rest did.
Slobo: Do you know that the locals from Mamusa went to the polls regularly, regardless of the fact that you say that you yourself didn't? All right. In the village, the director of the clinic in the village is also a Turk; is that right?
Witness: Yes, a Turk.
Slobo: And the director of the post office too, also a Turk; right? Director of the chicken farm,
Refki Mazik [phoen], also a Turk; right? The thing is that in normal life with normal interrelations and an indubitable display and exercise of human and political rights that was enjoyed by Turks in Kosovo and Metohija. Do you remember that, just before the aggression, that Prizren was twice visited by representatives of the Turkish embassy, who talked to Turkish political parties both from Prizren and Mamusa and that at that time mutual satisfaction was expressed between -- with the relations between the authorities and the members of the Turkish minority? Do you remember that?
)
Watson: WOW! It seems that the ethnic Turks were treated really really well under Slobo's rule.
Holmes: Certainly seems that way.
(
( 1889 )
Slobo: And do you remember that on the 11th of April, and that was a Sunday, the 11th of April, when you were in Mamusa, according to your own words, do you remember that that day the members of the Turkish ethnic community from the village of Mamusa and from Prizren organised in Prizren a rally to convict -- condemn the aggression of NATO, and it was attended by 15.000 citizens?
Witness: There was no rally in Mamusha, but the police forced us to hold a rally. They forced us. They sent us to Prizren. And if we wouldn't go, they would burn our houses. We couldn't do anything else. What else could we do?
Slobo: Mr. Tac, 15.000 people were at that rally. Are you claiming that all of them were forced to go there? And they were mainly Turks.
Witness claims the numbers were different and they were forced to attend or their houses would be burnt down.
Holmes: It's hardly the "hitting the ground running" kind of start we were told it would be, certainly. However, maybe things will pick up with this witness.
Watson: Hurrah!!!!!! Slobo about to be sent reeling by a young Turk.Some background blurb per chance.
(
( 1848 )
Question: Mr. Tac, what is your ethnicity?
Witness: Turkish.
Question: Mr. Tac, where was your place of birth?
Witness: I was born in Mamush.
)
Holmes: To cut a boring story short, our hero was born in 1954 did his military service like a good little boy
(
( 1850 )
Question:Today, are most of the residents of Mamusa of Turkish ethnicity, like you?
Witness: Yes. Yes. Ninety per cent Turkish and 10 per cent Albanian.
Question: Did any Serbs live in Mamusa in 1999?
Witness: There have never been Serbs in Mamusha.
)
Holmes: He added that the population of the town was a princely "5.500 to 6.000"
Watson: Nods off.
(
( 1852 )
Question: Thank you. Mr. Tac, apart from Mamusa, were there any other towns or villages -- are there any other towns or villages in that area of Kosovo where the population is mostly of Turkish ethnicity?
Witness: Apart from Mamusha, there were Turks in Prizren, in Prishtina, and in other towns a few, but really only in Mamusha there were Turks.
)
Watson: Okay, coke head, how about when the Serbs torture the ethnic Turks and impale the heroic KLA freedom fighters on sticks.
Holmes: Here it comes. Kind of.
(
( 1853 )
Question:What happened, Mr. Tac, in Mamusa on the evening of the 25th of March, 1999? Do you recall?
Witness: On the 25th of March, in Mamusha, at about 10.00 at night, a whole group of refugees came, about 1.000........They came from the surrounding villages. They all came from the villages round about to Mamush.........They were Albanians.
Question: Did any of these refugees stay in your house that night?.......... And did they tell you -- did any of them tell you why they came to Mamush?
Witness: Yes. They said because it was quiet. To save their lives, that was why they came to us.........Mamusha was very quiet at this time. There had been no conflicts. They had come to save their lives.
Question: And approximately how many people of Albanian ethnicity sought
Judge: He has said a thousand.
Witness: No. No. On that day, we didn't see, but when we came out after two days later, there were about 30.000.
)
Watson: So we get to hear some second hand testimony.
Holmes: Yup.
Watson: Goes back to sleep.
(
( 1854 )
Question: What happened on the 27th of March, 1999 in Mamusa?
Witness: On the 27th of March, 1999, at about 10.00 or 11.00, the army came, with tanks, and
entered Mamush........They came to the middle of the village -- into the middle of the village with tanks, and the refugees were among the houses, and they told us all to come out into the centre of the village.........We all went out with all the refugees and all the villagers of Mamush into the centre of the village.........There is a road. It is a long one, and all the road was full of people........The soldiers came in among them. I don't know who they were, but they came in, in around the people........Everybody was ordered to go out into the middle of the village, the residents and the refugees alike.
Question: And what happened when all the people had gathered in the middle of the village?
Witness: Yes. We went out of the houses and left the houses empty, and we went out into the middle of the village and they said to us, "You of Mamush go on one side, and you refugees on another side."........The population of Mamusha at one side and then the Albanian refugees separately.
Question: And when the people were divided into two groups that day, what did the soldiers or
their commander, if there was one, say to the people?
Witness: They said, "You people of Mamusha bring out your carts, buses, trucks, everything you've got, and fill them with refugees and take them away from here.".........He told me to get trucks and fill them with refugees, and all our friends came out on the street with these vehicles and parked them there and started to fill them up with people, all the buses and trucks.
Witness: All our vehicles were filled up, and they said, "All right. Don't you use your carts, but let them go out with all their own carts and let them all go out in the streets with what they have."Those who had their carts went back and fetched them, whatever they had, and they got on board, and then they set out.
Question: Did you see a battle going on or hear the sounds of a battle taking place on that day?
Witness: No. In Mamusha village, there was never any fighting, not only that day, but never; never in the past did we have any fighting there.
Question: At some point was a convoy made of the vehicles owned by the refugees in Mamusa?
Witness: Yes. There was a convoy of refugees. We, the inhabitants of Mamusha, were sitting aside........We all saw them leave for Prizren or I don't know where they were taking them.
Question: On that day, did the Albanian residents of Mamusa remain in Mamusa or did they also join the convoy?
Witness: They were in Mamusha together. We were all together there.........They stayed together with us, the Albanians of Mamusha.
)
Watson: So only the refugees NOT from the village were told to move on. So what's the big deal?
Holmes: What indeed? And note that, as the Kosovo Albanians who lived in the village didn't leave, we can safely assume this was no "expell all the Kosovo Albanian" policy that the MSM would have us believe.
Watson: My god, such god awful testimony.
Holmes: God awful it is.
(
Question: Let's talk now, Mr. Tac, about the evening of 27 March, 1999. What happened in Mamusa that evening?
Witness: That night - it was about 6.00 in the afternoon - we saw that the houses of the village started to go in flames........ We were in our own homes and then we saw flames coming out of some houses. We were inside. It was from a distance. We could see the smoke and the flames. We were -- we went to our cellars to hide there.
Question: About how many houses were burned in Mamusa that night?
Witness: About 30, I think........That night, we didn't know what was happening, I mean in terms of people who got killed or injured. On the next day, we found out that seven people had been killed.
Question: What was the ethnicity of the persons who perished that night in Mamusa?
Witness: Three Turks, four Albanians.
)
Watson: That's it?
Holmes: Yup.
Watson: If that's evidence then I'm Britney Spears.
(
( 1864 )
Question: At some point during that evening, the 27th of March, did a tank come near the village of Mamush?
Witness: Yes. A tank was coming in the direction of Mamusha. When it came in the village, we went to a brook nearby. No. I'm sorry. The tank had an accident and rolled over......... It rolled over about 200, 300 metres above the village it was.
Question: After this tank rolled over, were more homes set on fire in Mamush?
Witness: We didn't know what was happening, but we found out that this burning stopped.......... I didn't see the tank that night, but on the next day when they came to pull it over with a crane, we saw the army troops passing by in the middle of the village to go to the place where the tank had the accident.
Question: Were you able to see who started the fires in Mamusa on the evening of 27 March?
Witness: I didn't see who set the fire, but people there know.........They left, and then the army came and they set fire to the houses, and they drove us away from our homes. It was the Serb Yugoslav army that did that.
Question: Who told you that? Do you recall who told you that?
Witness: Our villagers who left their homes, they told us.
)
Watson: So, some MORE hearsay. Aaaaagh! I'm being submerged in a tsunami of hearsay.
(
( 1865 )
Question: At about noon on April 2nd, what happened in Mamusa?
Witness: On the 2nd of April - it was in the afternoon at about 12.00 or 1.00 - the police came to the centre of the village. Five or six, I think.
Question: And what, if anything, did the police tell the people in the centre of the village to do?
Witness: They wanted us to bring out our trucks to the road........I was at home, and someone told the villagers who went to the middle of the village. He said, "All of you bring out your trucks to the road.".........Some of the trucks were about to leave, and a neighbour of mine came up to me and said, "You, too, should come out with your truck.".......... When we reached the road, we parked beside the road and we were waiting for them to tell us what they wanted us to do.
Question: When you were parked in a line along that road, did you see the policemen there on the road?
Witness: Yes. The police were coming around the cars and trucks.
Question: Dd you learn the identity of any of the individual policemen who were in Mamusa on that afternoon?
Witness: I didn't know any one of them, but some of my friends said that this policeman is called Sipka.
Question: Were you close enough to hear him?
Witness: Yes. I was just there by my vehicle and he was forced to bring his vehicle and come.
Question: Eventually, Mr. Tac, about how many trucks were lined up along that road?
Witness: There were 12 of us........We started the trucks up and got into the vehicles, and he was in front and we were behind him.
Question: And did you and the other drivers follow Mr. Sipka in your trucks?
Witness: Yes. We all went after him.
Question: And when the trucks left the village of Mamusa on that day, where did they go?
Witness: To Medred, Xerxe, and then to Pirana........2 A. We went on towards Rahovec, and
when we arrived in Xerxe, the police stopped us.
Question: And what did the police who stopped you in Zrze tell you to do?
Witness: In Xerxe, they pointed us towards Rahovec.
Question: And what did the police who stopped you in Rahovec tell you to do?
Witness: They told us to go to Malisheva.........We went to Malisheva.........There were a lot of refugees in Malisheva, and Serbian police and soldiers surrounding the refugees there.
Question: When you arrived in Malisevo that day, did you see any planes dropping bombs?
Witness: No. We didn't see anything like that.........Then they told the refugees, "Go on. Get into
the trucks." and the trucks were filled up and we closed them........They were refugees. Malisheva was absolutely full. All the area -- the entire area of Malisheva had gathered there.
Question:How did you know that these people were -- that these people were refugees who had gathered in Malisevo? Did you speak to any of them?
Witness: We spoke to them and said, "Here you go. Go on, get into our trucks." They said, "You set off for Prizren." They said, "Go on. When they're full up, off you go."
Question: Well, how did you and the other drivers know where to go?
Witness: They said -- beforehand they said, "Fill up the trucks and then go to Albania." They told us........We set off from Malishevo to Rahovec, Xerxe, Pirana, Prizren........They stopped us at Ostrozub. The Serbian army stopped us at Ostrozub, about ten kilometres from Malishevo.........They stopped us and asked for money from us.........We continued on toward the Albanian border.
Question: Along the way, did you see any planes dropping any bombs? Along the way, did you see any battles taking place or hear the sounds of a battle?
Witness: No. I didn't see anything like that.
Judge: Mr. Saxon, while they were driving to the Albanian border, was there any Serb police or army with them?
Witness: No. They -- they weren't with us along the road.
Question: If there were no Serb forces driving with you along the road, why did you continue to drive towards the Albanian border?
Witness: There wasn't, but they told us to take these people straight to Albania. So we were forced to take them. There was nothing else we could do.
Question: So the road between Zhur and the boarder was full. So you couldn't go any further; is that right?
Witness: We told them, "Okay, friends, we have reached Zhur. We can't go any further. We'll have to wait for two days. Can you get off and go on by foot towards Albania?"........They said, "Where are we?" "We're in Zhur." "Is the border far?" And I said, "It's six or seven kilometres, no further than that."........ "All right," they said, "Thank you for taking us this far." And they got off and got out of the truck......... "Thank you for bringing us this far. You brought us as if by plane." And we said goodbye and we said, "Safe journey," and we went one direction, they went in another. And we said, "God willing, you'll be all right," and we went back.........We were 12 trucks and we returned to Prizren again.
)
Holmes: THAT"S IT
In summary, the guy said that some refugees came to the village, then the Serbs moved them on, he saw some flames and some dead bodies a day or so later, and then a couple of days later still, he and several villagers went to Malishevo to move some Kosovo Albanian refugees away from the fighting. THAT'S IT FOLKS.
Well, Slobo didn't need to do much to knock it into touch, considering the witness wasn't really saying anything.
(
( 1877 )
Slobo: In your opinion, were those refugees able to be put up somewhere there in Malisevo?
Witness: They were outside. When I saw them, they were gathered in the middle of Malisheva. There was no place they could go to.
Slobo: That means it was logical that somebody should take them away from that place, where they had nowhere to go, nowhere to be put up, to be evacuated somewhere, to be taken away to safety somewhere; is that right?
)
Watson: So the Serb forces were helping them get to a place where they could find shelter, etc. So where's the crime then?
Holmes: Where indeed. The treatment of the ethnic Turks under Belgrade rule. Life was pretty good it seems.
(
( 1886 )
Slobo: According to my information and the figures, up until the war, the whole village of Mamusa lived in a normal way, as loyal citizens to Serbia, and I also have information that you would go out to all the elections that took place from 1990 to 1997. Is that correct?
Witness: For myself, I didn't go to the polls. I don't know what the rest did.
Slobo: Do you know that the locals from Mamusa went to the polls regularly, regardless of the fact that you say that you yourself didn't? All right. In the village, the director of the clinic in the village is also a Turk; is that right?
Witness: Yes, a Turk.
Slobo: And the director of the post office too, also a Turk; right? Director of the chicken farm,
Refki Mazik [phoen], also a Turk; right? The thing is that in normal life with normal interrelations and an indubitable display and exercise of human and political rights that was enjoyed by Turks in Kosovo and Metohija. Do you remember that, just before the aggression, that Prizren was twice visited by representatives of the Turkish embassy, who talked to Turkish political parties both from Prizren and Mamusa and that at that time mutual satisfaction was expressed between -- with the relations between the authorities and the members of the Turkish minority? Do you remember that?
)
Watson: WOW! It seems that the ethnic Turks were treated really really well under Slobo's rule.
Holmes: Certainly seems that way.
(
( 1889 )
Slobo: And do you remember that on the 11th of April, and that was a Sunday, the 11th of April, when you were in Mamusa, according to your own words, do you remember that that day the members of the Turkish ethnic community from the village of Mamusa and from Prizren organised in Prizren a rally to convict -- condemn the aggression of NATO, and it was attended by 15.000 citizens?
Witness: There was no rally in Mamusha, but the police forced us to hold a rally. They forced us. They sent us to Prizren. And if we wouldn't go, they would burn our houses. We couldn't do anything else. What else could we do?
Slobo: Mr. Tac, 15.000 people were at that rally. Are you claiming that all of them were forced to go there? And they were mainly Turks.
Witness claims the numbers were different and they were forced to attend or their houses would be burnt down.
Slobo: I said from Mamusa and Prizren. And the rally was held in Prizren, and almost the entire Mamusa attended. Are you claiming that that was not so? So you participated in that rally against NATO on the 11th of April because you were forced.
Witness: Yes. Of course we were forced. There's nothing else I could do. I had no other way out.
Slobo: Do you remember that Adem Koc addressed the rally, among others? He was president of the local commune in your village and also a representative of the Turkish Democratic Party, a Member of Parliament in the Municipal Assembly of Prizren?
Witness claims he had no idea who he was. He also said he couldn't hear what he said too.
Slobo: And do you know that, at the same rally, Sadik Tanjoll also addressed the rally? He was president of the Turkish Democratic Party of Yugoslavia, an attorney-at-law.
Witness: I don't know who spoke.
Slobo: And do you know who Zenel Abedil Kures is? Have you ever heard of him? He's also a Turk.
Witness: I know that he's a Turk, but I don't know what he said. I'm not interested in this. I'm not a politician. I'm a peasant. I mind my own business.
Slobo: You must know that he was -- that Mustafa Bakir was headmaster of the primary school Zenel Abedil Kures.
Witness: I don't know.
Slobo: And do you remember that Sokol Kushe [phoen], an Albanian, made a speech there? He's a director of a cultural institution in Prizren.
Witness: I don't know who he is. I don't know. I don't know him at all. I don't know.
Slobo: Do you know Franjo Prenglusha, also an Albanian, also a deputy of the Municipal Assembly?
Witness: I don't know any of these people.
Judge admonishes Slobo for asking such stupefyingly difficult questions.
Slobo: All right. I won't ask him any more about the Turks who addressed the rally, but I do wish to ask him, in this connection, if he remembers that the transport from Mamusa to Prizren was organised by private hauliers from the village of Mamusa, namely, Mamusha Tours and Birlik. Transport to Prizren, to the rally. The hauliers were your ownfrom Mamusa. The Birlik enterprise and Mamusha Tours. Do you remember that?
Witness claims it was all a lie.
Slobo: So you went in your own vehicle to the rally, where you went under duress?
Witness: Yes, by force.
)
Watson: MY! It seems that anyone who was anyone in ethnic Turk society in Kosovo spoke at that rally.
Holmes: It does indeed.
Watson: And the witness makes a complete Turkish kebab of himself with such "Oim a peasant" routine.
Holmes: He be bumpkin he be. Oooooo arrrrrrr.
(
( 1890 )
Slobo: And do you remember certain members of the KLA from Mala Krusa, Pirana, Samodreza, and Studencane who hid for a while at your place?
Witness says he doesn't know.
Slobo: Are you asserting that not a single time before the war were there any members of the KLA who found shelter at your house, from the villages I mentioned?
Witness: No, there wasn't. There weren't. Not at my place, and I haven't seen any in the village.
Slobo: And do you remember the time when just after those members of the KLA were there, the police made a search of a part of your village? Do you remember that?
Witness: You mean the KLA was in the village and the police searched? No. I never saw anything like that. The police often came, and I am a peasant, and I was in the fields and at home, and I never saw things of this kind.
)
AND
(
( 1893 )
Slobo: All right. Do you know anything at all about the 30th of May; that is, after that, the KLA kidnapped the president of the local commune and a deputy to the Assembly of Prizren, this Adem Koc person I already mentioned, and Morina Mahmet, who were held for questioning for several days in a basement in the village of Celina. Do you remember that?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: But you know those people and you know they were kidnapped? Yes or no.
Witness doesn't know
Slobo: And do you remember that one of the most wealthy people had all his trucks confiscated? When did you come back from Turkey to Mamusa?
Witness: I came back in January 1999.
Slobo: But that happened precisely at that time. How come you don't know about it?
Witness: When I returned home, I never heard of that.
Slobo: And are you aware that even before the aggression, and even now, the KLA took money to finance its terrorist organisation from the citizens of the village of Mamusa, that it racketeered the people of Mamusa?
Witness: I don't know. They never took any money away from me. I haven't heard about that.
)
Watson: Oh. What a sorry spectacle
(
( 1894 )
Slobo: And are you aware that during the war the work organisation Liria, from Prizren, opened a shop in Mamusa to supply the locals with essential products? Do you remember that?
Witness: We had our shops in Mamusa, and we still have the same shops.
Slobo: I'm saying that during the war, Mamusa was supplied in the way I described. Do you remember that? Yes or no.
Witness: That I don't know. I don't remember that.
Slobo: And do you remember the wounding of a Turkish woman, Suzana Taskra, during the bombing? In Prizren. She worked at the TV station, broadcasting in Turkish.
Witness: No, that I don't know. I know nothing about any other place.
Slobo: And do you remember that in the Turkish language, Radio Pristina, Radio Prizren, Radio Mitrovica, Radio Gnjilane broadcast in the Turkish language? Do you remember that?
Witness claims to have NEVER heard or seen these programs in the Turkish language. NEVER.
Slobo: All right. If you didn't watch television or listen to the radio, do you remember that there were newspapers in Turkish, such as Tan, Cergetush [phoen], Bai Cevrin, Esin, and Sofra?
Witness: I don't know. I don't read papers. I am a farmer. Those who read know.
Slobo: Do you remember the Sofra newspaper, published in Mamusa in the Turkish language?
Witness: I knew that it came out, that paper was published, but I don't read. I said, I don't read.
Slobo: And do you remember that the Turkish Democratic Party had its own offices in the centre of Prizren? Were you a member of any party?
Witness: I have never been a member of any party, so I know nothing about this party. I am a farmer. I mind my own business. I work. I don't care about parties.
Slobo: And have you heard of the death of an entire Turkish family on the 7th of April, the Gash family; mother, father, and four daughters? They were Turks. They were not killed in Mamusa. They were killed during the bombardment somewhere in town. Have you heard of that family?
Witness: Where were they killed? I don't know that. I never heard of that.
Slobo: Have you perhaps heard that the Turkish journalist Sarife Turgut, a correspondent of the ATV television, a Turkish television, described the rescuing of a 2-year-old girl who was saved by Dr. Andric from Pristina? Do you remember that event? There was a special programme on Turkish television about that.
Witness: I'm not aware of that.
)
Watson: MY! Such ignorance. Ignorance about matters that they should definitely know about is a hallmark of nearly all the prosecution witnesses isn't it.
Holmes: An observant observation my observant friend
(
( 1897 )
( 1897 )
Slobo: And do you know anything about, after the arrival of NATO troops in Kosovo, the 7-year-old daughter of Orana Kasma, from Prizren, was kidnapped and a very large ransom was demanded?
Witness: That I don't know.
Slobo: You know nothing about it? And do you know about the rape and killing of a married Turkish woman, Ajsa Altiparmak, again after the arrival of NATO troops, and that was done by KLA terrorists?
Judge gets upset that Slobo is confusing the witness with such difficult questions.
Slobo: Well, you are probably right. As you see, the witness doesn't know anything about what had been going on atthe time. Is it true that in the village of Mamusa itself -- please listen carefully. In the village of Mamusa itself, on the critical day which you discussed a moment ago, that a large group of armed KLA terrorists from the villages of Studencane, Mala Krusa, and Pirane opened fire on the patrol of the MUP of Serbia, harming even innocent passersby?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: You said a moment ago that you don't know who had killed them, that you didn't see that, you just heard of it. So how do you know that Serbs killed them?
Witness: You said -- you said these people were killed, but they were not killed in the roads, in the streets somewhere. They were killed in their very homes.
Slobo: And how were they killed?
Witness: That night we were at home. On the next morning, they were found. Their bodies were found in their own homes. And we buried them on the 28th of March, on the Bajram day.
Slobo: How did they die? How were they killed? Were they killed by a bomb, a bullet, a stone?
Witness: By the bullet, not by the bombs. We didn't have bombs in Mamusha. By arm -- by gunfire.
Slobo: You are now saying that they were killed from firearms, and a moment ago you said that you had never heard any shooting in Mamusa, whatsoever. So how could they have been killed by firearms? Let me note that he first said that he had never heard any shooting whatsoever, and a moment ago he said that people were killed during a shoot-out.
Judge: Very well. Let the witness deal with that. Mr. Tac, what he said is that members of the KLA were in your house. Is there any truth in that?
Witness says there were no KLA in the house.
Slobo: Does he know that the Albanian terrorists burnt the Serb village of Novak, only four kilometres away from Mamusa, with 80 Serb houses? Do you know about that?
)
Watson: La di dah.
Holmes: La di dah indeed.
(
( 1900 )
Slobo: All right. Did you go to Prizren? Did you see that a tombstone of Nari Rexhalebia [phoen] was demolished in Prizren? Did you see that?
Witness says it's a lie.
Slobo: Did you see the Turkish fountains in the yard of the mosque in the Tahban settlement destroyed?
Witness didn't see it.
Slobo: Do you know that the Osman Efendi mosque in Novo Brdo was completely destroyed? Did you hear about that from anyone, for example?
Witness professes ignorance.
Slobo: All right. Did you hear about the fact that, in Prizren, people were sacked? Now, I'm talking about now, after KFOR, that Turks were sacked from their jobs, and their name was Xhala Jash [phoen], Fikrija Nush [phoen], Mehi Bekazaz [phoen], Nurik Malta [phoen], Jaku Plav, Mustafa -- from the Mustafa Bakija primary school, as well as Jakusha Mamushe [phoen]. Do you know about all of them or any one of them who were fired from their jobs?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: Did your children go to school? Which language was tuition? Was it in Albanian when they went to school?
Witness: It was in Turkish. They didn't go on to studies. They went on to be farmers and went to school in Turkish.
Slobo: So you had a school in the Turkish language. Do you know that there were in fact six schools in the town and in the village of Mamusha itself with tuition in Turkish? Are you aware of that? I said one in Mamusa and the rest were in Prizren. Do you know about four secondary schools in your municipality where pupils were taught in the Turkish language as well?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: All right. And do you know about doctors, Turkish doctors, Bulent Krilje, Dr. Isak, Muxhada Kovic [phoen], Resmije Shata, Dr. Valkan [phoen] and others, all of them Turks, all of them working and offering treatment to patients? Have you heard of them?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: Do you know about Judges, Sas Kofiki [phoen], and Skender Musbeg, those two Judges? Have you heard of them? They are also Turks.
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: What about Abdul Tac? Was he the headmaster of the primary school in the village of Mamusa?
Judge tries to help the hapless witness.
Slobo: Do you know that in Prizren two Turkish drama theatre companies were functioning, with performances all over Yugoslavia and in Turkey and in Germany too? Have you heard of those?
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: Do you at least know about the village of Mamusa and the cultural and arts society Askferki that functioned there in your own village? Do you know about that? In Turkish, the Turkish Cultural and Arts Society. Have you heard of that one?
Slobo: Do you know of any Turks who were members of the government of Kosovo and Metohija, members of the Executive Council, as it was called, of Kosovo and Metohija?
Witnes doesn't know.
Slobo: I'm asking him whether he's heard of Zenel Abedil Kures. He was a minister there and a Turk. He must haveheard of him.
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: Have you heard about a lady, also a Turkish lady, Bude Hasaru?
Judge puts a stop to the slaughter.
Slobo: Well, all this has to do with his evidence, but he doesn't seem to know anything about anything that went onexcept the fact that he helped a group of Albanian refugees to get out of Malisevo.
Do you know about Adem Koc, Sadik Tanjoll, Zenel Abedil, Muhammed Ustaibar [phoen], Ilija Micamil [phoen], Hasan Merdan? Do you know of any of those individuals? They're all Turks.
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: And do you know about Mahmet Morina and Haim Shala, those two names? Also two Turkish gentlemen kidnapped by the KLA.
Witness doesn't know.
Slobo: Why do you think they would be in prison in Serbia? They were loyal citizens of Serbia and didn't come into conflict with the authorities at all.
Witness makes the slightly ridiculous claim that they were kidnapped by the Serbs.
Slobo: ATurk appeared who was in prison in Serbia. Is that what you're saying? What was the name of this one Turk?
Judge stops Slobo from any more piss taking.
)
Watson: Overall, an F minus for credibility.
Holmes: And now it's time for Mr. Tapuskovic to get into the fray
(
Mr T: Mr. Sakir, first of all, let me start off by asking you the following, something you talked about at the beginning of your testimony. You said that your village was quiet, that there were never any conflicts there - you used the word "conflict," I believe - and that these people came to your village to take refuge. Did you hear from them or anybody else that in other places, in other villages, there were conflicts?
Witness: If they didn't have any conflicts, they wouldn't have run away from their homes and come over to us.
Mr T: So conflicts between the KLA and the army; is that it?
)
Watson: So the people left because of KLA fighting with Serb forces then.
(
( 1908 )
Mr T: Thank you. Did members of the KLA ever come to your village?
Witness: No. I've never seen them. I don't know.
Mr T: But you said previously, in paragraph 3 of your statement that Mr. Sakir gave on the 10th of June, 2001, in that third paragraph, it states the following: The KLA did not have a stronghold here, but they did come from time to time. There was no stronghold here, but they did visit from time to time. That is what you say in your statement, that they came from time to time, in your statement of June 2001. Is that what you said or not?
Witness blubbers something incomprehensible.
Mr T: Can you explain, then, how come this sentence exists in your statement, the statement you made at that time?
Witness doesn't know.
Mr T: On the 27th, the event took place which you have described to us here. On that day, the army or the police - it doesn't matter - searched houses; is that right? And all the houses were searched. Nothing was stolen from your house, but it had been ransacked; is that right?
Witness: Yes, it was ransacked, but they hadn't taken anything away.
Mr T: Does that mean -- you know that they said that they were looking for weapons, just weapons, and as they found no weapons, did they take anything else from the house or not?
Witness: I don't know what they searched for. We never had any weapons, nor do we have today. But I know that they searched. That is all I know.
Mr T: Thank you. You said that there were casualties and that you buried them the next day.
Do you know the names of any of those people from your village who were buried on that particular day?
Witness: I don't know the names of all of them. I know the names of the Turks, but I don't know the other four. I don't know the names.
)
Watson: Pitiful stuff. He changes his story as the wind changes direction. He knows nothing about his village even though he claims he's lived there all his life.
Holmes: Etc etc etc.
Watson: So are you telling me that
Holmes: YUP. Slobo wins
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